The Space Between Fear and Flight: Mariyaah's NASA Story

Talk about a glow-up! Mariyaah Muttalib didn't just break into tech – she shattered expectations and claimed her spot among the stars at NASA. In this can't-miss episode, she's spilling ALL the tea about her journey from presentation-panicked to powerhouse speaker. Trust me, you'll want to hear how this sister turned her biggest fear into her superpower while reaching for the stars.

Get ready for the realness:

• The moment she decided to face her fear head-on (even when her voice was shaking)
• Her secret sauce for mixing creativity with public speaking (because tech talks don't have to be boring!)
• The FULL scoop on conquering NASA presentations (including the parts they don't post on LinkedIn)
• How she transformed from presentation wallflower to stage superstar
• The truth bombs about speaking in STEM that Instagram won't tell you
• Building a support system that celebrates your voice AND helps you find it
• Keeping your deen strong when facing your fears

This isn't your average career podcast – these are the conversations that'll have you texting your bestie "Girl, you NEED to hear this!" Listen today. 

Chapters

• 0:00 Innovative Muslim Women in Tech
• 4:57 Cat Adoption and Career in CS
• 11:17 The Path to Computer Science
• 17:59 Overcoming Fear of Public Speaking
• 26:31 Myth and Stereotypes in STEM
• 34:49 Realities of Computer Science Careers
• 41:01 Challenges and Rewards in Tech Careers
• 47:43 Creating Personal Websites in Tech

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

I gave a presentation with my teammates in front of a NASA panel and that was cool, but I would be lying if I said that that presentation was rad. It was okay.

Speaker 2: 0:19

Salaam everyone and welcome to Muslimism Motion Professional Pursuits. I'm Hawa, your host, and here we celebrate the achievements of young Muslim women while exploring strategies to balance the life you dream of with the life you're living today. Join me as we dive deep into the journey of Mariah Muttalib, a trailblazing computer science student and web developer whose innovative projects, like a natural disaster app, showcase the power of tech in creating meaningful change. From NASA TIDathons, her story is one of resilience, creativity and impact. Thank you again so much for joining me today. So how are you?

Speaker 1: 0:57

I'm doing well, nothing too crazy, you know, just living life.

Speaker 2: 1:03

Love that, love that Love living life All right. So I always like to start off asking my guests a signature question, and that question is you're in a deserted island and you're only allowed to take three things. What are those three things that you're bringing with you?

Speaker 1: 1:20

Maybe like a satellite phone, just in case, like I would need help. I want to see my laptop and oh freak. But like, what's the point of taking a laptop if you don't?

Speaker 2: 1:33

have a charger.

Speaker 1: 1:35

Yeah, oh my God, freak, wow, that's a lot. Probably a satellite phone, something for the Wi-Fi, and could the laptop and charger be one thing?

Speaker 2: 1:50

Or if you can find like a solar powered laptop. I feel like that had to have been a thing at some point. I feel like, if we look it up, it's probably here. Actually, I'm going to Google that real quick. It's probably here. Actually, I'm going to Google that real quick. Laptops with chargers in them, internal chargers Well, yeah, I feel like that would have been very revolutionary. If you can engineer one, I guess Sure, I guess we can, I don't know make it work. I really thought there was going to be like one niche result Laptops with USB, blah, oh, whatever. Anyways, I'm sure somewhere someone has created a laptop that has like a charger in them.

Speaker 1: 2:37

But hey, if anybody needs like a startup idea, oh, frick, and you would like need a battery to charge it sounds like a lot oh frick, and you would need a battery to charge the mail. It sounds like a lot.

Speaker 2: 2:48

Dang.

Speaker 1: 2:49

Okay, so I'll just say a satellite phone, probably a book Well, I can't say a book because it would get really boring. I don't know man Something to drink clean water, I guess I know that they have those where you can, yeah, like the filter straws. Yeah, that, and probably a knife or something for hunting, because I would obviously need to eat. So, yeah, those are my three things. That'd be a really boring life, though Sounds really boring.

Speaker 2: 3:25

Yeah, I think after a while it's just kind of like okay, guys, let's get back to you know reality. But I like your answers. I think A lot of people don't think about the water filter thing. I think I've had like a couple, maybe like one other person say like, oh, like a reverse osmosis tank, what is that Like a reverse osmosis tank? What is that? So, basically, it's like a system where Actually let me look it up before I just have the wrong answer, but from what my understanding is, it's just like a filtered water system. It says a water purification system that uses a semi-permeable membrane to remove contaminants from water. So it's just a really fancy filter. It takes out like chlorine, salt, dirt, so just filtered water, pretty much. Okay, you got the gist. So I like that. But, yeah, thanks, I really enjoyed your answers. Well, thank you, no worries.

Speaker 1: 4:28

So at first, I want to start with who are you and what do you do currently? So I'm mariah muttalib. I am a computer science major at um kennesaw state university. I I guess I don't know take computer science courses. Unlike a lot of people, I actually liked my data structures class I. I was terrified of it before I took it, but then while taking it I think because I was exceedingly terrified about it I actually ended up doing well and actually slightly enjoying it. So that was rad. What else? Who is Mariah? I don't know. Mariah is a Muslim chick out here who enjoys martial arts and has two cats that she takes care of and, yeah, and Mariah is a family oriented person that I don't know likes being creative also in her free time. I love that.

Speaker 2: 5:24

That is really awesome and I'm very happy and blessed to meet another fellow pet parent, really, yeah, I currently have one cat. His name is Prince Aww, very spoiled. Right now he's taking a nap. Usually he would be trying to scamper on my lap while I'm trying to do interviews because for some reason he thinks whenever I'm actually talking to people at desk he thinks that's the most optimal time to want attention. Yeah, same as cats do, I definitely would consider getting another cat. I always like watch cats, hit my friends like cats and stuff. So I, I don't know, I really love cats. I kind of want another one. So how is it like having an like two of them? Did you get them both at the same time or did you have like one and got the other?

Speaker 1: 6:15

yeah, I got them both at the same time, um, so it's actually kind of a really funny story. So, like I did not want cats, but like when I used to go to like this I believe it's called Pet Supermarket and like on Saturdays, like at a certain time, they would have all of these cats that like would be fostered by these people, you know, just like regular, not like I guess. Like where they keep cats in cages and stuff. I don't know what you call those places. Oh, this shelter, yeah, animal shelter, yeah, not like that. It was just like they kept like a whole lot of cats in their houses at the same time and then let people adopt them if they like found someone who wanted to adopt them, so like they would bring them like every Saturday to like the pet supermarket and I would just like pet the cats and like, play with them and stuff.

Speaker 1: 7:06

And there were these two cats. So there are kittens in the same cage and they're like, one was like almost completely black and the other one was orange and white and it was weird to me because I was like, why are the two kittens in the same cage? You know, I don't usually see that, but like, and they were so comfortable. The lady that was fostering them told me like their best friends and they actually are and so I just couldn't help but think like I don't want these two cats to get separated from each other because I know like a lot of people don't a lot of people don't want to adopt two cats at the same time. So I was like you know what, I'll just adopt them. And yeah, I eventually adopted them. The foster parent she gave me a really good discount because she liked me and yeah, I eventually adopted them and I named one Chola and the other Alsahan. And yeah, and they hang out with me now. It's really funny how they have like their own personalities and everything Exactly yeah.

Speaker 2: 8:11

Are you actually crying, bro? I'm not gonna lie, like when you said I just didn't want to separate them, like I was getting misty. I was like dude, like oh my God, like wait this, I love animals man, so like seriously that like I don't know why it just it just hit something. I'm sorry I wasn't seriously let's react.

Speaker 2: 8:36

I was like, oh, my god, like this is actually such a beautiful story. Oh, that just really makes me want to get him another friend. He's such a spoiled, like only child. But the thing is there's one like so one of my coworkers. They have a cat and their cat's name is Billy. And you know, billy and Ordu's like cat, which is very funny, and Prince and Billy get along like so well and they're always like best friends and obviously I can't take Billy away from his family. But it just makes me think, like you know, prince is such a kind, like he's so sweet, because you know, some cats are very like territorial. Whenever we've had a visitor cat, even if the cat was not really ready to be friends with Prince yet, he would always like do a little chirping at them, never hissing, never growling. It was always like chirping, like hey, how's it going, and like letting them eat first and all these things. And he's just such a kind little fellow. He deserves a friend. So yeah, thank you for that story. I'm convinced.

Speaker 1: 9:50

I love that his name is Prince. It's so, so adorable. Thank you.

Speaker 2: 9:54

I wish I could take the credit, but I'm just being so honest, I suffer from like very huge decision fatigue. So, like the shelter actually named him that and me and my family were like deliberating. We were like, what are we going to name him, what are we going to name him? But like weeks were passing, we kept calling him Prince. He kept responding to Prince and pretty soon we were like well, here we are. I wish I could take credit. I can't. I wouldn't feel it wouldn't feel right inside if I took credit for his name. He was just, he just had that name and it suits him, because he is definitely a prince lounging around eating and getting pets. So he's great, we're a thread. Yeah, all right, cool. So, with that being said, what got you into CS? Like what made you think this is something I will really want to do for the rest of my life?

Speaker 1: 10:50

I honestly think I just fell into CS honestly because, like so, I transferred to Kennesaw State from Georgia State and I had gotten my associate's degree in engineering. So like it's not like any like specific, it's just like an engineering where you take like a few classes or whatever. Well, I shouldn't downplay it, it was kind of hard.

Speaker 2: 11:12

I'm sure engineering anything is difficult, so you did that.

Speaker 1: 11:17

Originally I really wanted to be a mechanical engineer because, like from a young age, I liked like building things. I liked knowing how things were constructed. I really enjoyed building like robots and stuff. That was really rad and. But then, like I don't know, I don't know what made me do this, but I was just like I kind of want to try out software engineering, because it was one of my goals. I wanted wanted to learn how to code, and this was kind of before. There were a lot of courses online that taught you how to code and everything way less than there are now. So yeah, I thought the only way that I would learn is if I majored in it. So when I transferred to Kennesaw State, I majored in software engineering and then from that I just like sometimes I like I would major in software engineering and then I'd be like this is OK, but I want to see what computer science is like. Then I would major in computer science and then, like I stuck to computer science because, like I don't know, there was like less classes that I would need to take, but also it was interesting and just learning more and more about computer science. I feel like it suits me because you know you're constantly learning.

Speaker 1: 12:34

In computer science. A one language like one year, or one IDE one year will become completely obsolete, you know, in the next year, so you would need to learn something completely new and sometimes that sucks, but a lot of times it's pretty rad and I really like that. You can make something that kind of didn't exist before you had made it and you don't have to buy anything to make something. If you want to make a website, you do that. There are plenty of resources. You know, if you wanted to learn a completely new language, you could do that and I really like that about computer science. I call it a love-hate relationship because sometimes it's like really rad and sometimes just like dang. Why didn't I major in like something easier?

Speaker 2: 13:25

it's so funny. You say that because I was literally telling somebody that the other day I was like I don't know, like some days you're just like man, like this is great, like this is what I was born to do, and then, yeah for sure, you'll get like the worst bug or the worst like won't even be like a syntax error. It'd be like a like. You know, like won't even be like a syntax error. It'd be like a like. You know, like some logistical or logic related issue Can't figure it out. You've been staring at the screen for eight hours and you're like, yeah, maybe I wasn't cut out for this. You know, some people are just made for it and it's not me, you know. Like you're just like, oh, this it wasn't. Yeah, I get it. Like, seriously, I get it.

Speaker 2: 14:06

I think that's really cool. I really like relate to the creation part, because I think for me, right, I just enjoy creating stuff. So it's so exciting to just be able to create things that people find either really useful or really fun or really cool. Right, and being a software engineer allows you to do any of that stuff, whether it's game development, whether it's like supply chain software, whether it's game development, whether it's like supply chain software, whether it's like medical software, whether it's um, a to-do list app or productivity apps, like, like you said, you can create literally something out of nothing.

Speaker 1: 14:34

Yeah, with programming, and it's just such a great experience, it's such a great feeling yeah, especially blending like art with technology because, like I was very creative when I was a kid, like I loved drawing. To get older and then like to be able to like actually fuse art with technology is like really rad.

Speaker 2: 14:56

No, absolutely. And it's funny because me and you were like right here, cause, like I used to draw all the time when I was like a kid and I still try to like fit that in because you know you want to like still have time for things that like I drew for a very long time. Actually, I was just and that's actually what made me want to get into like game development, because I was like it combined my loves of like programming and technology with art and I was like, yeah, I want to just create games and I really like creating interactive pieces of I don't even know how to describe it, I can't even say art, because it's like I liked adding the logic part to the art. So I don't know if you remember Scratch, right, scratch, yeah, it's like this visual programming thing. It's like online, it's browser based and you just kind of use it to like you just apply it. It's like very simple programming.

Speaker 2: 15:50

People make like games and all kinds of stuff on there, and I remember when my dad showed it to me, I was like, oh my God, cause like you go on a website. There's so many people who just created art with it, created like games and really cool games too, and not only that. They'd create like dupes or what is it like. They'll just create like really popular games like I don't know, like what's that blocks works I don't know if you remember on like cool math games, like they'll create like the scratch version of that or something and it was really cool, yeah. So like I relate to that, where it's just like, yeah, like art creation, all these things are just combined and you can have this in this industry and I think it's so awesome.

Speaker 1: 16:34

Yeah, that's rad. I wish I could like interview you because, like, seriously, like game development and everything like I am so new to that space, so like, and I would love to know more about it. So that's really rad that you do that.

Speaker 2: 16:51

So you've been a part of incredible programs like NASA's Aerospace Scholars and the Google's Future Interns Summit. Do you want to tell me a little bit about those programs and then we can kind of dive into the next couple of questions?

Speaker 1: 17:07

The NASA Aerospace or the NCAS NASA Community College Aerospace Scholars, is actually a really funny story. So I was back at Georgia State and I believe I was taking one yeah, it was one of my engineering courses. I forget which one, but my professor I believe her name was Professor Redivari. She probably still works there, but anyway, yeah, I remember she was talking about how there was this program that you could sign up for. And you know how professors, before the class starts they give announcements and stuff. Like there's this NASA program that you can sign up for and it's this.

Speaker 1: 17:50

And I was like at that time my confidence was like not very high but I was like what the frick? You know, I'll give it a shot, I'll see what happens. So that's what I did and I remember working on because you had to submit. I think it was like an introduction or telling about yourself and why you want to be in this program. And you had to get a recommendation letter from your professor. And I remember one of my professors I forgot his name, but he's freaking awesome he gave me a recommendation letter and I had written basically like it would be so nice to be a part of NASA when I was a kid, I remember watching this PBS kids show and they all went to NASA and I was like man, that would be so rad. It looks so fun at them in their spacesuits and them doing these missions and stuff. It was like obviously all acted, but I was like that that would seem so rad, you know, and I I like remembered that until that time and I explained that in like the tell about yourself thing and yeah, eventually I had no idea they would do this and I like literally told nobody about this because I was like I don't know why, but I told nobody about it.

Speaker 1: 19:04

And eventually I got the acceptance and yeah, and I was shocked that that happened.

Speaker 1: 19:11

But yeah, so we had to like watch like these short lectures and we had to go to these conference calls kind of about like Mars and different aspects of Mars and that kind of thing generally and like do modules similar to like the webs I don't know what they call it the, you know, like for Georgia State online courses they have like the online portal. It was a lot of that. Yeah, so there were like modules that you needed to get done, but while also doing those modules, and I think there were like quizzes. Also, you had to write I believe it was a minimum 10 page essay, I think on like, yeah, on any one of these like prompts that they give you. So like they gave you questions and there weren't easy questions, I'll tell you that about like, um, like basically, how would you get from earth to Mars, but like they included some really technical stuff in there and, honestly, it was only by the will of the law that I got through this because, like I was like no, it was really oh my God.

Speaker 2: 20:19

No, it was really, oh my God. Earth and Mars.

Speaker 1: 20:23

It was really fun. But like, I remember like and it was enjoyable, but it was also a lot of work and I remember being in the library at Georgia State, like at night, just doing research and researching like what the frick they meant, because I had no idea. And just like coming through these research essays and knowing when to cite and when not to, and how to put these things in my own words. I learned a lot from that. So I submitted the essay and then eventually I got an email saying like hey, you got accepted, so you can come on site to Virginia. I think, yeah, that's amazing. Yeah, but like I had never traveled out of the country by myself, like ever, so that was also nerve wracking. Yeah, I know I'm going on and on about this.

Speaker 2: 21:17

Listen, I'm here because of that, so like, don't apologize or anything Like. Tell as much as you want, like this is really cool to hear, because I've never met anybody who'd been to that program. So like I mean honestly, like it's amazing.

Speaker 2: 21:31

You know what I mean oh wow, like the fact that you're able to first of all 10 page essay. That's probably the reason why I was. That's actually one of the reasons why I was so grateful to be a CS student, because I guess in the back of my head, like I knew and don't get me wrong I used to love writing. But like 10-page essay, dog, that's just like that's a lot. So, honestly, all respect, mashallah.

Speaker 1: 21:55

Mashallah.

Speaker 2: 21:56

Everything, all the kudos, all the flowers are just thrown at you Because like that's so amazing and how was that experience like on site.

Speaker 1: 22:07

Well, it was like really nerve wracking because I didn't. I had never traveled alone to like a different state before, like ever, and yeah, so that was also nerve wracking. Going there, my communication skills, like I was very introverted, so I did not like talking a lot to other people or let alone giving a presentation on stage. So, yeah, we were paired into teams and that was interesting, yeah, and I don't know, I was exposed to a lot. I learned a lot of good things. I learned some things that people do that really aren't great. Yeah, I learned that, like I gave a presentation with my teammates in front of a NASA panel and that was cool, but I would be lying if I said that that presentation was rad.

Speaker 2: 23:01

It was okay, yeah, do you mind sharing? Sharing what made it just okay? What in your head is standards?

Speaker 1: 23:16

What classified it as rad, but what ended up making it so it was just okay. To you I would say that the other people, they did an okay job. Some of the presentations were pretty awesome, some of them are okay, but, like I don't know, I'm kind of hard on myself, so what I mean by okay is like I was stuttering. I only said a few words because, like I just I did not like giving presentations and there were like a ton of people watching, and that's what I mean by yeah. And then, after that, well, it was finished, I had to fly back and, honestly, surprisingly, they wanted me to like I don't know who she was, but like like you know how, like colleges have like GSU news or you know that kind of thing, there was a lady and she wanted to interview me for like my experience, along with like other students that had done the nasa experience also, which I was not expecting, and yeah, that was pretty cool too. None of that has ever like had ever happened to me, so it was pretty.

Speaker 2: 24:15

To me. You must have been pretty good then, because personally I don't know if somebody wanted to interview somebody who bombed it, so I think you probably did really well. I wasn't there. But the way you're able to articulate like how, what you did, how you did it, and you know, I think it's important to look at things at a with a critical lens, right, like you know, obviously our egos can't be so big where we're like oh, I did great, I did perfect, but you're able to look at that experience and then take from it and then learn.

Speaker 1: 24:49

So I think that's one of the hard things, but you must have done great if they want to interview you. Yeah, I definitely did take that learn from the experience because from then on I was like okay, I'm going to take every opportunity that I can to practice presenting. Even if I suck at it so bad, I'm still going to do it. And that's what I've done. And I'm still not at the point that I want to be, but I've definitely improved from that point.

Speaker 2: 25:14

So, yeah, that's amazing and yeah, that's literally great, because I remember in undergrad I knew I kind of sucked at public speaking and so the first thing I one of the first things I did was like sign up for public speaking, like one and two, because I was like I'm going to force myself to speak in public because I have to. You know, this is a skill, a valuable skill, that a lot of people either take for granted or don't really realize how important it is until you're in a position to see how important it is. Like I was, I had like a research project in like high school and we had like a whole like presentation and everything and blah, blah, blah. And I think that was the moment where I was like you know what, I'm not terrible, I just wasn't very good at many aspects of speaking that I should have probably been good at, like eye contact and you know the mish-mushing, like enunciation, things like that.

Speaker 1: 26:07

And so.

Speaker 2: 26:07

I think it's really important to like, especially in our field, right, A lot of people think, oh, I can just sit behind the computer all day, but eventually you're going to have to present something. So, yeah, I think it's really cool that you're able to take from that experience and just put yourself out there and everything. So that's really cool. So, with that being said, if your STEM journey was a sci-fi, movie.

Speaker 1: 26:34

what's the title and what's the epic climax of the movie? Oh, wow, the title. I don't know. Can I copy it from another movie's title?

Speaker 2: 26:40

Yeah, it can be a parody of another, another title or something I can only think of blade runner.

Speaker 1: 26:46

I don't know why. Um, maybe I like pacific rim, so maybe like mariah's rim or m's rim or something like that. I I don't freaking know it's a science rim.

Speaker 2: 27:02

Yeah, we'll workshop, we'll workshop that one, we'll workshop it.

Speaker 2: 27:07

But, yeah, I think that's so cool how you're able to like put all that effort into getting into that program and it really shows like your commitment, not just smaller level, but on a deeper level, you were able to apply and even though, like you yourself, you said like, oh well, you said your confidence wasn't there.

Speaker 2: 27:26

But I think it's important to note, right, and that's actually one of the things I regretted, right, like because of my quote unquote lack of confidence, I didn't apply to as many, I didn't participate in as many hackathons as I should have, I didn't apply to as many internships I should have, and so I think your story is a testament to just, I think a lot of times we just count ourselves out before we're even counted out, and I think it's really cool that, in spite of being afraid, you just decided to do it anyways. So I really wanted to make that point because it's so important and anybody who's listening needs to know it doesn't matter if you don't think you're qualified, because chances are you probably are. You just are not being kind to yourself, which I think is really cool that you chose to just go for it.

Speaker 2: 28:10

So, it shows your commitment, shows your bravery, influence the way you approach these things, or just approaching innovation in general, or creativity and what you're doing the things that you apply to the work that you do, etc.

Speaker 1: 28:30

I think like, since it can, it has the ability to get really difficult. I think, having hope and allah that everything's like gonna be fine, but not just having hope and all, but also like making Dora but also putting action behind that, like I think consistency is really good, not only just saying like I'm gonna do whatever not whatever it takes, but like I'm gonna do what I have to to get where I want, but also like not being consistent with that by like putting in like small efforts every day, rather than like I'm going to do this for like three hours today and then I'm going to do it for five hours tomorrow, and like that kind of thing where like hey, I'm just going to do this for an hour every day and I'm going to get better and I'm going to be better by the end of this year. Inshallah. Making tahajjud is really good, at least once, because I know that it can be difficult and also I don't think it's discussed a lot.

Speaker 1: 29:32

But when you're in college and you're surrounded by a lot of people and a lot of things that aren't correct in Islam, I think it's like important to like remind yourself of your values and like also remind not remind yourself but like have a good support group of friends. You know what I mean. Like have a good circle of friends, because who you hang out with greatly affects, like the type of person that or the things that you do. I think so you know, not falling into certain things that are going on at school that aren't don't align with your personal values, and being surrounded by like-minded people that all want the same thing that you want, I think.

Speaker 2: 30:21

That's amazing, yeah. And to the last point you made, it's such an underrated point because the best thing you can do for yourself is, of course, surround yourself around practicing people. People are on the same path as you, right. Because at the end of the day, right, it's a lot harder If you want to get to a certain point in your dean. It's just a lot easier when you have people around you who are on those goals too. Like, let's just say, for example, I know quite a few people who are trying to stop listening to music. May well make it easy for everybody, because growing up here, you know, maybe not everybody has been exposed to the whole like, oh, music is. You know you want to stay away from right.

Speaker 1: 31:00

So yeah, no, I'm one of those people actually who needs to try to stop, honestly, that.

Speaker 2: 31:06

That is my weakness, yeah yeah, yeah, because it's everywhere right, and it's like even when you go to like muslim majority countries, music is there. So it's like really hard. You just be like, oh, that's why I say you just gotta make dua right. There's no judgment or anything here. At the end of day, we're all striving towards something, right? So don't worry.

Speaker 2: 31:25

I get you. But to this point, right. If you're around people who are listening to it nonstop, 24-7, you in the car with them, this you and you go to I don't know an event there, party here, there. After a while you're just going to be like, well, this is really difficult. Well, yeah, it's really difficult, because everywhere you go, everywhere you're doing, everything you're doing is surrounded or centered around this thing, right. But if you're surrounding yourself around people with a similar goal or the same goal, maybe instead of being in the car and listening to music, y'all listen to a podcast, or even, let's say, you guys are not on the same goal or the same path, but as long as you're around somebody who respects, that they'll put on the podcast when you're in the car with them or you're hanging out with them because they respect you, they're your friend. So I think you know and that's just one example.

Speaker 2: 32:19

There's so many different examples we can get into, but I really like that point. I think it's super important, especially for those of us who are going to school, or college is different, right, like we grow up basically around the same people in elementary school. If you're in, like, the adult world, where there's new people, new adults, new things, new events, new all these things. If you don't have a support system, you're not grounded. It's really easy to get lost. I think that's a super important point that you brought up, so thank you for that. What's one myth about women in STEM you wish would disappear forever and one stereotype you secretly embrace?

Speaker 1: 33:10

I don't know about women in STEM, but I know, like for a myth that is in STEM that I know that they're trying to push a lot to people is like oh, it's so easy, you can just, you know, just take this one course and you'll know so many. Or like just to go, especially with college, all you have to do is just go to college and major in computer science and you'll be set. And I see that a lot with like new people who like go to college, like people who are just their first or second year. You know like bright they're bright-eyed and bushy-tailed and you know like we we were like that too. Like you know, like, know, like, oh my gosh, I programmed my first Hello World and everything which is rad, but it's like I don't know.

Speaker 1: 34:05

Sometimes I feel like they're like pushing it a lot, where they're saying it's so easy, after college you'll be set, and it's just like, no, that's not it, you're gonna. It's a lot of work to be done. You know it's a lot of work to be done, you know. But like I just think that like that's maybe a myth, that it's like so easy and all you need is like one course to know to rule them all. You know. No, I don't know if that reference lord of the rings, but yeah, yeah no, I used to watch like this series with my mom, like growing up.

Speaker 2: 34:36

She really loves like fantasy, like you know, lord of rings, harry potter oh, dude, harry potter.

Speaker 1: 34:44

Harry potter is so rad but yeah, to your point.

Speaker 2: 34:49

I think that whole like and you see it a lot, not even just in cs, but like, even with like things like digital marketing they're like you buy this one course, you are just you're gonna make so much money, like you're gonna be a millionaire. Yeah, all you have to be a software engineer and you're just gonna make. You're gonna be making three hundred thousand dollars when you graduate from college, which that's cool for like 1.2 percent of people. But like, most people are just not gonna do that and that's okay. I think the really the problem is like people are just not going to do that and that's okay.

Speaker 2: 35:19

I think the really the problem is like people are just like selling this dream, this exorbitant extra, like millionaire, this money, this you're going to never worry about anything, ever. And then it's so easy, like you said, all you have to do is code Hello World. I hate to break it to you, pal, but like there's so easy. Like you said, all you have to do is code hello world. I hate to break it to you, pal, but like there's just so much, like there's so much depth, even as somebody, and I realized, like I haven't been, I like I've been a software engineer for over two years and even now, I'm still kind of like. You would think like, yes, I'm, I'm kind of comfortable. However, there's just so much depth to what you can possibly learn like for example, like five programming languages.

Speaker 2: 36:05

Okay, that's cool. But like, knowing the like, knowing the not just the syntax of what you're, what you're programming in, but knowing how, the best way to efficiently solve certain problems. And the thing is, a lot of people don't realize that a lot of this stuff is just like pattern matching. You just have to expose yourself to it a lot and a lot and a lot of times and then you kind of familiarize yourself with okay, how can I solve this the most efficient way? Oh wait, I remember seeing this previously in another thing. That's all it really is. But you can't have that without, like, the time, the effort, the energy. You know you got to grind a little bit right. So, with that being said, you know a lot of people don't realize that they're just like you learned this one magic programming language. You're going to get a job. No, it's so much more than that, because even if you get the job right, you still got to actually do your job and you still got to problem solve. You still got to figure things out. It's not easy.

Speaker 2: 37:04

There's some days like I said, you're going to be like well, maybe I just wasn't cut out for this. And then you're finally going to figure it out and you're going to be like maybe I am cut out for this, so yeah oh yeah, I just wish people would be more honest about like computer science and software engineering rules.

Speaker 1: 37:22

And I'm not saying that that's a bad thing, I'm just saying like don't like sell smoke to like people who don't have any idea about computer science and software engineering. You know like, be honest with them, be like hey, it's gonna get hard or hey, you know you'd be like if you don't enjoy problem solving or if you don't enjoy learning new things like consistently, then maybe this isn't the thing for you. Because I see so many people who are like first year, second or like in high school and they only want to do computer science or software engineering because they see like all of the commercials or all of the courses, like the courses on the commercials, or like people tell them like if you want to make so much money, then you can when you graduate, then this is the way to go. You know it's like just like. No, like you actually have to enjoy doing this. You know Exactly.

Speaker 2: 38:19

Like it's not meant to be, even the people who enjoy it. Like I tell people like I enjoy what I do, but that doesn't mean that it's just hard as rocks sometimes, honestly, like it's a lot, and so I can't imagine like not actually enjoying it and still showing up. It's a lot, dude. And, like you said, the commercials, this and you know, now with social media, right, yeah, that too. Tiktoks about like what do I do? What I do as a software engineer on Facebook make $400,000 a year, yada, yada. They show up to work. They're like oh yeah, I'm at work today and I went to the food court.

Speaker 1: 39:02

I was literally going to say that dude, it's like.

Speaker 2: 39:07

And it doesn't show them doing any actual work. And then so people, whether they subconsciously or consciously believe it they're like oh wow, this stuff is just so cool and so fresh and my life could be so easy if I work in tech. Yeah, and it's like I hate to break it to you, bro.

Speaker 1: 39:23

Yeah, that's not how it works another thing like instagram, tiktok, like because and youtube, actually like, yeah, some, yeah some of the things that you see, yeah, the vlogging, the my day in the life as a software engineer and stuff like you've got to like some of those you like have to seriously like watch out for because some of them will show like them doing like two different or like three different youtubers doing the exact same thing, or like they're going into work and then they somehow have time to like exercise at five am and that's like not realistic.

Speaker 1: 40:00

But like and then going into work and like, oh, I'm getting free food, you know, and then sitting down to code, but like not showing anything of what they're coding, but, you know, sitting down and coding for like 20 seconds I mean, I get that it's like a video or like 30 minutes and being like time for lunch. I'm like like you have to realize that like this is content and like they need at the end of the day, they have to like sell content in order to make money and I just, I just wish that like yeah, yeah yeah, and so you have to do mindful consumption right, because they're showing you, like, the 20 minute, the 20 minute max days, but they're not showing you the days where the 20 minute max days.

Speaker 2: 40:39

But they're not showing you the days where you're staying up till like 1am because you're trying to finish a story before the sprint ends and you really don't want to carry over again or else your boss is really going to be very disappointed in you and you really don't want that. So, like it's, you're looking at the clock you got your coffee next to you, it's 2 am. You're still not realizing that you actually just missed a dependency, like to inject a dependency in a test class and that's why your test is failing. It's not even actually the test you wrote, it's just a setup and but you don't know that because you're like sleep deprived and yeah, I was literally coding at 2 am dude like but nobody shows that.

Speaker 2: 41:24

They just show like, or you know I, there are some people who do, but yeah, there are yeah yeah, they're just like oh wow, like free food, free lunch. And then you also don't realize the work it takes to get in there, because yes, free food, free lunch, but you know how many like leet code rounds and studying sleepless nights. Cracking the coding interview yeah. Reading all those algorithm books, yep. Cracking the coding interview, gail McDowell classic. It's a lot dude. But like you said, people are just selling a selling a drink.

Speaker 2: 42:00

But yeah, I think it's a very good point. It's easy to forget when you're seeing other people do it, and then also it makes you feel bad because you're like they're making it look so easy. Why am I struggling so much? But the truth is everybody is struggling at it. Some people are just. You know, people don't. People don't show you. You know that people like to show the highlight reel. You know nobody likes to admit that they're sucking or failing.

Speaker 2: 42:26

That's why it's so important to be transparent and to, like you know, let people know, like hey, like this was actually a bad day and I'm not showing this because I want you to feel bad for me. I'm showing you this. It's just how it is Exactly.

Speaker 1: 42:40

I think it's important, but like I'm not saying that it's like a bad thing. We're like I mean, every job has like the bad days, you know. But I'm just saying like, don't get into this thing for the money or like because people are pressuring you into doing it. Get into it because you actually like, enjoy problem solving and you actually enjoy learning new things, because if you actually do, then you won't. You know, you won't struggle. You'll struggle, but I don't know how to describe it. You'll enjoy it, I guess I don't know, absolutely, I get it.

Speaker 2: 43:16

It's like I would never, never be a doctor. That whole like four years of medical school and suffering and memorizing. I was not cut out for that man. So I knew I was not going to be a doctor and that's why I have so much respect for people who choose to do that stuff seriously, like I'm not even good at biology or none of that stuff, man, I'm just being honest, same I knew I was meant to be.

Speaker 2: 43:43

It was computer science or nothing. That's the only science. Everything else, like it, was just tough. So but with that being said, right, yeah, being a doctor makes a lot of money and a lot of prestige and a lot of people respect you because you're literally a doctor, like you save people's lives. But I know deep down inside that's not what I have passion for and that's not what I want to do. And I think the same thing should apply here. I mean, yeah, it's easy to say like, oh, yeah, it's just a job, but most people are going to be doing this thing for like eight hours a day for like 20, 30, 40 years or whatever you might as well enjoy it, you might as well.

Speaker 1: 44:19

Yeah, yeah, I totally agree.

Speaker 2: 44:22

But yeah, oh my gosh. Thank you so much. I really super enjoyed this. I think you're an awesome interviewee. This was great. If you ever want to do another interview, let me know, cause I really enjoyed. I had more questions to ask, but because of time and you had such good answers, this is good. So, like you did, amazing. Thank you so much. I just have one last question for you, so I want you to think about what's your favorite ayah in the Quran and how does it inspire or influence your approach to your career, your school, your life, etc.

Speaker 1: 45:01

My favorite ayat is in Surah Yusuf. It's ayat 101. And should I keep reading it, because I have it on the other tab, like in the English translation?

Speaker 2: 45:14

You can try that. Read it, do whatever.

Speaker 1: 45:17

Okay. So, like it says, my Lord, you have surely granted me authority and taught me the interpretation of dreams. And this is Prophet Yusuf saying this. By the way, oh, originator of the heavens and the earth, you are my guardian in this world and the hereafter. Allow me to die as one who submits and join me with the righteous. And that has always, like, stayed with me because, like I don't know to me, prophet Yusuf was one of the people who had a lot of things, but he still wanted to. He still was able to have a lot of wealth but also still not allow that to consume him, and he still wanted to, knew that he was going to die and he wanted to die with the righteous. And you know I make that du'a a lot because I also want that, but you know, it just always stuck with me.

Speaker 2: 46:12

That's amazing, honestly, mashallah, because a lot of people don't. And let me say why. When you know, we make du'a to to Allah, subhanahu wa ta'ala, for wealth and success and all these things right, but a lot of people don't think about making a dua like, okay, allow me to handle that success, allow me to handle that wealth, allow me to make the right decisions in a way that pleases you, allah, when I receive those things, or if you want to give me those things. So I think it just shows because, like Yusuf alayhi salam, in spite, like you said, he had everything at some point, you know, I mean at first, from his beauty to eventually becoming, you know, very successful. He was still humble, he was still somebody who did not allow these things to become bigger than his love for Allah, subhanahu wa ta'ala.

Speaker 2: 47:04

And I think that's so cool that you say that, because it's so important and the thing is, when you're grateful and when you're humble, allah will increase you. So I think that's such a beautiful reminder and thank you so much for choosing that Aya, no problem. And thank you so much for choosing that Aya. Well, no problem. Thank you so much. Honestly, dude, it was great. This was amazing. If you have any socials or anything you want to share. Where can people find you or support you?

Speaker 1: 47:27

So there's my LinkedIn. If you just type in my name, mariah Mutalib, I don't know if they'll be able to see it or the spelling of it or anything, but yeah, I'll put the link in the notes, all right.

Speaker 1: 47:40

Okay, cool so yeah, mariah Mujhala of LinkedIn. I have an Instagram. It's kind of sad to see because I never post on it, but it's mjustaregularmujhala, my last name, seven and it's all lowercase and yeah, those are the places and hopefully, inshallah, on my own website, because that's my next coding project, making my own website. I know, like you made your own website. I don't know if you coded it yourself, but if you did, then I mean, if you did or if you didn't know, it doesn't really matter, but like if you did, that's like really rad and oh, you did.

Speaker 2: 48:18

Or if you didn't know, it doesn't really matter, but like if you did that's like really rad and oh, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, man. I it was. Uh, it was a bit of a headache, but thank you it was. Yeah, I appreciate that because I just wanted to have something that was like cool and cute and whatnot. So I appreciate that, thank, thank you. Awesome, thanks, man. So I think that marks the end of our episode. I will catch you, guys, and next episode, inshallah.