They Said: 'Girls Don't Code' - How Aazain Jan Said: 'Watch Me.'

Today we're sitting down with the incredible Aazain Jan, a tech queen who's literally changing the game from Quetta, Pakistan. Through her Dev Diaries blog, she's showing us what's possible when you decide to take up space in tech - even when the world isn't exactly rolling out the red carpet!

Y'all, the wisdom she dropped in this episode? LIFE-CHANGING!My favorite quote has to be when she said "Education isn't just a tool. It's a lifeline to a brighter future." Like, can we just take a moment to let that sink in?

In this episode, we're diving deep into:
* Breaking those "but girls don't code" stereotypes (bye, haters! 👋)
* That journey from "I can't do this" to "Just watch me!"
* Dealing with those moments when you feel like a total fake (spoiler: you're not!)
* Creating your own tech sister circle when you need it most

Listen, if you've ever felt like the only girl in the room during a coding class, or if you're dreaming of tech but feeling scared to start - this episode is literally YOUR sign to go for it!

Perfect for every sister out there who's been told "maybe try something else" but knows in her heart that tech is her calling. Trust me, after listening to Aazain's story, you'll be ready to open that laptop and show the world what you're made of!

Links to Connect with Aazain:

1. LinkedIn: Aazain Jan
2. Blog: AZ Jan Dev Diary
3. Instagram: @.niazaa.
4. Snapchat: aazain_jan2408

#WomenInTech #MuslimahsInSTEM #DreamBigger #TechSisterhood

Chapters

• 0:00 Breaking Barriers
• 12:42 Motivating Through Tech Journey Conversations
• 21:33 Balancing Grades and Extracurriculars
• 36:10 Finding Peace and Inspiration Through Faith

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

What happens when you're a young Muslim woman defying expectations and breaking barriers in tech. For Aya Zainjan it started with pure curiosity, a love for learning and resilience against being labeled just a nerd, but her journey wasn't easy. There were eureka moments, setbacks and powerful lessons along the way. And powerful lessons along the way. This episode is for anyone who's ever felt overlooked but still felt the urge to keep pushing forward. Let's get into it. Salaam everyone and welcome to Muslimism Motion Professional Pursuits. I'm Hawa, your host, and here we celebrate the achievements of Muslim women, while exploring strategies to balance the life you dream of with the life you're living today. Join me as we dive deep into today's guest, azeen Jan, a self-taught developer, tech blogger and someone who turned her passion for problem solving into her greatest strength. In this episode, we'll dive into how Azeen went from being underestimated, defining her voice, embracing her nerdiness and inspiring others to improve their skills rather than being perfectionist. Now, azen, how are you today?

Speaker 2: 1:34

I'm fine.

Speaker 1: 1:34

What about you? Alhamdulillah, I'm doing good, so thank you so much. I'm really excited to have the opportunity to talk to you today. I think you know this interview, inshallah, will be something very valuable to a lot of people, hopefully. You know, I'm always open to learning things, so hopefully I can also learn something from this as well. Inshallah, all right. So are you ready? Yes, okay. So who is Azen beyond the lines of code? So I have to ask a question. This is the opening question. So there's a desert island and you need to bring three things with you. This can be like tech related or non-tech related. What are you bringing with you?

Speaker 2: 2:16

Three items only and I'm like on a desert island. Okay, the first thing I would bring with me would be like a book to keep me company. Like I don't think it would be one book, I think I would choose a lot of books. Like I have to take three things, but yeah, no, I would take. I would take one book, but definitely take one book I would. I don't think an island has internet connection or any electricity, so I don't think tech would bring me work. So I would take I don't even have a pen, or I would have taken that.

Speaker 1: 2:55

What got you into this field of software engineering?

Speaker 2: 3:00

So, basically, I come from Quetta and Quetta is a city in Pakistan and over here. It's a city where girls aren't given that opportunities, like the opportunities for girls in tech is very scarce, so it's really hard for girls to pursue any type of education, let alone be like go into the careers of tech or tech related fields. So, growing up, I watched my father embark on a very extraordinary journey, one filled with struggles and that ultimately ended up with huge success. So, despite not being really educated or stuff and facing countless obstacles, he managed to secure a PhD in the UK. So he got a PhD scholarship in the UK in Glasgow University, particularly so when he completed his PhD. His PhD was CS related topic, so it was, I guess it was on cloud computing something.

Speaker 2: 4:01

So, yeah, that alone, that milestone that changed the course of our lives completely. So it was like a major turn off, like the climax of all of our lives. So, and his determination taught me that education isn't just a tool, it's a lifeline to a brighter future and like seeing him preserve against the odds ignited the spark inside me that I wanted to do the same Like I want to go into this, like this tech field, and I wanted to prove myself that, yes, it is possible for girls to be in any tech related STEM major. Yeah, Mashallah.

Speaker 1: 4:39

That's actually really inspiring, especially, you know, considering the fact that, like to me, right, whenever I hear stories like this, it makes me think, because you know so many people, it's always easier to do the thing of least resistance, right it's. We all have choices, you know. You can just sit and say you know what, I'm not lucky, I don't have the resources, I don't. You know, this isn't this is not quote-unquote meant for me, right, but just hearing that shows that, like you can make a choice either you can just sit there and accept life happening to you or you can make a difference, you know. You just using the tools that you have.

Speaker 1: 5:19

Right, you could have just been like you know what, it's fine, I would just find a simple job and it is what it is. But the fact is, like he chose not to do that. So I can see why you know mashallah, or see how you get, like, that determination and that, that that urge to make a change when you get so close to home. Hamdulillah, that's amazing. Yeah, so your blog, the blog, the Dev Diaries, right, I think it's really that's something that actually kind of stuck out to me when I was, you know looking and you know doing some background. I really like how it's such a blend of, you know, passion and your own personality. So why did you start sharing that and what do you hope that people take away from it?

Speaker 2: 6:06

so in it all started that there was there's this professor in my university and he like, wanted, she like wanted me to like go through some training to be like a front-end developer, and like I asked her how it would be possible, like the first step that I should take, and the first step that she told me was to start a blog. She said, if you want to start front-end development, you should first start with writing some blog episodes. And I asked her for advice what should I write on? So she was like write on your experiences, anything, just something that makes you happy and something that, like, makes you live a more fulfilled life. So, yeah, that's how I started writing those blog episodes, and seeing people actually read my content made me more motivated to write more episodes that's amazing.

Speaker 1: 6:58

and so how long did it kind of take you to? You know, know, see people benefiting from it? Was there a time when you were doing it? And you know, maybe it didn't have a lot of traction yet Because, as most things right, you know, sometimes you start something, it's not going to go viral immediately. Yeah, did you ever? Were you ever doing it? And you're kind of like you know what's the point, nobody's really looking at it, or could you say that, say that like you kind of maintain that you know person, that, that that energy, like you know what, even though people aren't really reading it or anything, I'm still, you know, do my thing, I'm still right.

Speaker 2: 7:33

you know, feel free to be honest because you know, sometimes it's hard, you, you lose the motivation, but, you know, tell me about that like it's just that in whenever I'm like since I've started this like journey of mine in this tech field, I tend to get negative alone about myself and I start all this self-criticism and stuff. So when I posted the first episode, there were like two comments and like like five views or something like that. So I was was like okay, it's the first day, no worries. So I would. After every day I got back from uni, I would just go to my website, I'd just go to my blog, I'd go check the views and I would check who has like seen it or not, if somebody's read it or not. And like every day for like a week I get the same results Like nobody's read it, no comments, nothing. So that didn't make me feel a bit mad about myself. Like why am I even doing this in the first place? Like there's no point in doing this. Nobody's reading this, and so yeah.

Speaker 2: 8:38

Then after that, after posting two or more episodes, I started to like believe in myself and I was like maybe I'm doing this for myself. So like maybe I shouldn't give it a go. Maybe people will try reading these. Like if I come up with more creative topics or more relatable topics, people will try reading these or like have fun reading these. So when I posted the episode of the stereotypes, like beyond the stereotypes, so I that particular episode got a lot of views and like people at my university were actually talking about it, so that made me really happy and I was like, oh my gosh, it paid off. So, yeah, that one day, like the day when I heard my own class fellows like muttering about the blog and they were like, yeah, I read the episode. It was so like relatable and stuff, so that just motivated me to keep on writing.

Speaker 1: 9:32

See, that's amazing, Mashallah, because the thing is right. Oh, I took two things from that because, A, you know you, you kind of saw, OK, you took, even though it was a little discouraging, right, you took that and you kind of pivoted and you're like, okay, like you know, I'm going to make something that you know people can actually relate to, which is important, right, Because at the end of the day, people like hearing about things that can apply to them, because you know they can always learn from it. But then also, it's like you know that I'm actually not going through this by myself. And then also, when they talk about other people or talk with other people about it too, they're like, oh, I'm actually not going through this by myself either. And then, you know, it almost builds, you know, a bit of community, right, Because they know that, oh, this is something that a lot of us go through. Let's talk about it, Because, whether you know, whether it's on purpose or an accident, sometimes when we're going through certain experiences or certain scenarios, we can kind of like internalize and feel like, oh, I'm the only one who's, you know you can't.

Speaker 1: 10:41

Just, you know nobody else could possibly be going through what I'm going through, which is funny because the human experience is rarely unique. So I think that's just so cool how you were able to take something and then just also have other people just benefit from it, Because, at the end of the day, right, we like to create things that people can actually gain from, and I think that's just so cool that you were able to do that. You know.

Speaker 2: 11:04

Thank you. Thank you so much.

Speaker 1: 11:05

Yeah, of course it's really cool. I respect like writers especially. I mean when I was younger I used to like to write a little more and read. Especially Reading was like my favorite thing, that's my favorite hobby.

Speaker 1: 11:20

It's so cool and you can tell people's writing quality, like from the writing quality, how much they read. And you know, mashallah, from what you've written I can tell that you probably like to read a lot. Because it's not it's writing, whether people realize it or not. It's actually quite it's not easy, like it's not easy to like come up with just things to say, and not only just coming up with the things to say. But now you have to come up with, like, okay, how am I going to convey the ideas, the way that I'm feeling and thinking of them, how am I going to create it in a way where people can actually gain from it, benefit from it and, most importantly, enjoy what they're reading right, enjoy what they're reading Right. So I think it's so cool that you were able, mashallah, to like just create this, this blog, create this community with what you're doing.

Speaker 1: 12:12

Yes, so take us back to your first Dev Diary moment. I know we talked about like you know why did you start? And so what do you hope people take away from it? Like, for example, when you talked about your beyond the stereotypes post that you had created. Are there more things that you kind of hope for people to take away from your Dev Diary blog.

Speaker 2: 12:42

Yeah, I just hope that people like actually read my blogs and like they take this stuff, that they're not alone like in this tech journey, that it's okay to feel like imposter syndrome that's going on with them. It's totally okay to feel like you're behind, like your other peers are like way ahead of you and you're like no, I can't do this anymore, like this is the point, that I should just give up. So I just want people to be more motivated and I just want them to realize that it is possible for them to like not give up and just achieve their dreams if they've just put their focus to it. So, yeah, that's my main thing, that I want to motivate people. Yeah, and I especially want young girls to read my episodes so that they feel motivated to step into a field that's totally more male dominated these days.

Speaker 1: 13:34

so I just want them to know that they're not alone, feeling this like raging imposter syndrome, that maybe the others are better than them yeah, yeah, that's really important because, at the end of the day, like, while there are a lot more females alhamdulillah in this whole like tech stem, software engineering space, there's still not nearly enough right. So I think there's never a shortage of representation. In fact, I think it's a powerful thing to be able to stand there and be like I'm going to share my story and I want to be a voice for people and I want to be able to show them that it is possible. So I really respect that. So, as I was reading your blog, you know there is one episode where you talked about the ZAMP and the missing form and you had like a bit of a panic moment. Do you want to talk about that a little bit?

Speaker 2: 14:39

Yeah, sure, like a bit of a panic moment. Do you want to talk about that a little bit? Yeah, sure. So the story goes on like we we're actually learning like web engineering. So we have this course called web engineering in our third semester and and the course inside of it is like we're learning like html, css, javascript and also some backend languages like PHP and SQL. So we were actually doing, we had actually started PHP and we had started to like learn how to validate forms, like the forms we have for validation. So my professor actually gave us this assignment that we needed to create our HTML-based form and then we needed to apply like PHP validation on it.

Speaker 2: 15:20

So I just quickly whipped out my laptop right there in the classroom. I just I was like, yeah, I can do this totally, I'm just a pro at this. So, yeah, it was really embarrassing for me to see that it wasn't working. So, yeah, I whipped out my laptop, I opened up my IDE I really love using VS Code so I opened it up. I quickly typed up my HTML file. After that, I started compiling my PHP file. I linked those two together and I went to the browser and I was so excited to run this code that I forgot to turn on those servers in the XAMPP control panel. So I was like, yeah, this, totally I can do this.

Speaker 2: 16:06

So when I just entered like form, like I wanted to open up the file, so when I opened it up it wouldn't open up. So it was like error 404 file not found. And I was like, what, how? Like I just made it, I did all that stuff. So I went back into the VS code and I checked each piece of line, like I checked each line of code and I was like maybe I missed a terminator or something. Yeah, you know, in in our developer's world, the Terminator is the main cause of all disruption, personally. So I started checking every piece, like every line of code and I was like, okay, maybe I've done some sort of error and stuff. So I was like, okay, maybe there isn't any error and maybe it's just me hallucinating about this stuff. So I thought I was going crazy at that moment.

Speaker 2: 17:00

So, like I got out of classroom and like that night when I went home, I started checking it again, but no sign, no luck of anything. So when it was time to sleep, I was just laying on my bed and I was like. I don't know how this happened, but this thought came into my mind that maybe you haven't really opened up the control panel, like you haven't completed all the steps. So I was like, oh my gosh, that's it. I found it like it was my eureka moment. So I just quickly got out of bed, I whipped out my laptop again and this time I did everything step-by-step. I went step-by-step methodically. I opened up my control panel of XAMPP. I started both the servers, apache and MySQL, and I was like, okay, this has to work this time. So I went and opened the file and yeah, it was like ta-da, it was right there. And I was like, oh my God, I can't believe I just missed such a crucial step. And, yeah, that one crucial step had made me a nervous wreck for a whole day.

Speaker 1: 18:12

Yeah, first of all, I very much relate because people really underestimate. Like when you stare at a computer screen all day looking at the same code base, like sometimes your brain just doesn't work the way it needs to work, like some, everything just starts blending in. So I do not blame you, but I I especially liked when you refer to like when you were laying in bed and you finally, like it just had you had that epiphany, like that eureka moment. It made me think because my father also is a software engineer and so one of the tips he always gives me, like when I would be like stuck or very frustrated in something, something he's like whenever he's stuck or frustrated, he said he always like goes and takes a walk or takes a nap and those two things, no matter what. If he just like leaves it alone, it it's our brain does this thing where you know, even we're not consciously thinking about it, it's's still working on it, even if it's not at the forefront, right? So then one like randomly, you'll just be, like, for me I'll just be eating, or, like you said, I'm about to go to sleep or even taking a walk, and then all of a sudden I'm like, why? How did I not think of this before, you know. So I totally understand that and listen, there's just so many times that this has happened at this point.

Speaker 1: 19:42

I just consider it part of the process. Even my boss. He's like part of our job, isn't, is not our job, isn't just like the code, right, it's also like all the thinking we have to do in the meantime. It's also like all the thinking we have to do in the meantime, all of the that counts as work. You know, because it's knowledge-based work is different in the sense where, like, yes, you're working when you're like at the computer sitting and typing, that's just true. Or making you know process flow diagrams.

Speaker 1: 20:09

This is a thing. But also because of these background processes that our brain does, you know it's still doing the work even if we're not there. That's why a lot of us are mentally drained, like all the time, because our brain is just constantly thinking of all these complicated things, like in the background. It's so interesting. So let's see, I saw that you use Pinterest as a coding motivation hack. First of all, do you, do you mind like going over, like what exactly that hack entailed, and then we'll dive into the rest yeah, sure, like when I was in the like college and school, I would use pinterest for like study motivation.

Speaker 2: 20:56

So I would find all these study motivational codes and stuff. So I will like save them all together in one like board and like I would create multiple boards. I still have them till this day. So I would create those boards and whenever I was feeling unmotivated to do something or to get up and do my assignments or do my quizzes and stuff, so I just opened up those boards and I would read over those pieces of like motivational codes and I would be like, yeah, okay, let's do this, let's get this over with. So until this day, up until this day in university, I still use this hack.

Speaker 2: 21:33

So I've created a bunch of different boards on my Pinterest some for coding, some for like comp, sci, major outfits. So like I've made a board for outfits as well, all these different colored hoodies and stuff. Yeah, so I made one for coding, I've made one for motivational quotes. So whenever I'm feeling unmotivated or demotivated to like get up and code or do some studying or do any sort of work, I just open up that Pinterest. I open up Pinterest on my laptop, I just go towards my boards. I just open them up and like I read over those and like, look at those, all those people that are there, they're doing their job even though they don't want to. They're just getting it over with. So I'm like, yeah, maybe I should get my work done at this point. I mean, enough for procrastination, I just get this done, like yeah.

Speaker 1: 22:27

Yeah, and I think the motivational part is important because, you know, sometimes I don't know about you, but I remember in undergrad there would be some days where I would just be like what have I gotten myself into? Like I know, but like nobody tells you how painful it is.

Speaker 2: 22:43

yeah, yeah when your code is running, it's like perfect. You're like, oh my gosh, I love my major so much, I'm gonna be so successful and rich and stuff. And whenever I get a slightest bit of error, I'm like, oh my God, this is not going to be happening. I can't solve this anymore. I can't do this anymore. Maybe I should just change my field. I don't want to be a software engineer anymore. Yeah, so I go through a lot of negativity like that.

Speaker 1: 23:12

Yeah, can I tell you a secret? That feeling does not go away. Yeah, that feeling I thought it would go away. No, I think, like I think I can't tell you how many times, like I'll, there'll be some story wow, like I was born to do this. Like, wow, wow, I just I can't believe, I thought this was so difficult. And then there'll be some where it's just like you know what, maybe I'm just not, I'm just, I'm just I don't know how I made it this far. You know, I get it Like it's tough, it's tough.

Speaker 1: 23:51

So we just have to like keep reminding ourselves that like it'll be okay. We just have to like keep reminding ourselves that like it'll be okay. Like, I think something that I thought of, like as you were speaking, is that you know, a lot of people have this. You know, even if people are doing that, it's easy a hundred percent of the time, and I've wanted to be there as long as I can remember. Well, once I became more of a nerd, I just knew I was going to do this. But that doesn't mean that, like there are some, there are not days where I'm just like thank, what did I actually sign up for? I understand.

Speaker 2: 24:34

Yeah, hearing you say all this, I just wanted to ask a question if you're comfortable, yeah, please. I just wanted to ask have you ever dealt with a bad grade in any subject or something?

Speaker 1: 24:46

Oh, yeah, oh yeah. I was typically like a straight I wouldn't say straight A's, I was like an A B student. I was straight A's for a very long time. And then, like the thing is the education system in the US, we have these like gifted programs and stuff, and so when you're, you're kind of like adolescent, thinking that like wow, I'm so sweaty for these things. All of a sudden, like you hit a wall. Maybe I'm not smart. But then you realize way down the line, you're not not smart, it's just that you were never taught proper studying techniques and strategies.

Speaker 1: 25:25

I made it right Like alhamdulillah, like nothing failing or anything, not as easy as it used to be, and I could not figure out why. I would just be like you know, like I'm just going to try to make it a B or an A minus or whatever. And then college happened and it got even worse because I was just quote, unquote, getting by but I never, like still didn't really learn. So I really had to know how to study. But at a certain part in undergrad I realized that a little too late before I got like a couple C's and you know, and C's in my family is not and to most so I think, but like the whole point of me even saying this is that it's not really the end of the day Like you can make, but I say it's a combination of factors. Let me explain Grades can be, if you're talking about class or anything, 90%, but you also have to ask yourself what are you doing outside of your homework?

Speaker 1: 26:36

What are you doing outside of your classwork? Are you doing things like, for example, what you're doing, writing a blog, building a community, whatever that might be, posting on LinkedIn, keeping your LinkedIn updated and active? Are you practicing public speaking? Are you a multifaceted person? Because the truth is right, if you're just focused on, like your study, I'm not going to say it's the easiest thing to be like a straight, a student or anything, because, of course. However, if you are somebody who does extracurriculars, are you somebody with an active social life or do you volunteer? Do you have a job part-time, full-time job? Are you like building a community, having and contributing regularly to a blog, a website, an app? Are you building things, like in our instance, as a CS people? Are you building apps Like there are so many things that you could be doing outside of just making good grades?

Speaker 1: 27:39

That's why a lot of companies they don't really just look at the grades anymore or the grades are not the largest emphasis Because, at the end of the day, we know now people are just so much more than their grades. So you have to be a little more forgiving to yourself in general first of all, but especially if you are just. You know, some of us were very multi-passionate. We want to do all the things and want to do them now, and you just want to. You have so many goals and aspirations and you want to just do so much.

Speaker 1: 28:07

Yeah, I'm not saying you should fail your classes, but I am saying that, like, at the end of the day, if you're looking for a job or an internship or an internship, the internship is not going to choose the 4.0 or the 4.9 student who doesn't have a job, has no experience, doesn't do anything outside of their classes over the person who might have a 3.4. And they had jobs, they had people skills, they have experience working in a corporate or even in a team environment. You have experience building apps and plugins and modules. You contribute to open source projects. You build and you post regularly on social media and you have a blog. You have a website, you have a following and you can find ways to work that into your story.

Speaker 1: 28:55

Who makes you who you are? A following and you can find ways to like work that into your story. Who makes you who you are, et cetera, et cetera. Who do we think the job or the internship is going to choose? Are we going to choose the 4.9 who did nothing? Are we going to choose the 3.4 who has? Because, at the end of the day, they just want to see that you are a person Be nice to work with, because a lot of people forget that part. You think you can just be smart and know that that just inflects me.

Speaker 2: 29:27

Like professors at uni, just tell us that your GPA doesn't matter, it's your skill side.

Speaker 2: 29:35

So this guy in our uni class, he has like a 4.0 GPA. So for the last two semesters he's been getting the 4.0 GPA and he is really like this snobbish, arrogant type of person, like he isn't really nice to us at all, like he's really judgmental. So he's like he only hangs out with the kids who have like a higher GPA. So the people with the 3.5 or the 3.4, he doesn't even talk to them, even look at them. So I'm like, okay, so even though you've got a 4.0, you don't need to be this much snobby and stuff. So, yeah, I just want like someone to make like sense to him that whatever you're doing is like totally nonsense. Like maybe you should give others a chance to work with you. Like I mean, whenever we get a project or something like that, he only chooses the people who have like a good GPA. He doesn't even like want to go and talk to the people that are lower than him. So a person with a 3.5 he would never talk to.

Speaker 1: 30:40

So yeah, see, and I'm just be honest, the arrogance alone like he that's gonna catch up really quick sometimes and a lot of times, like you can be smart and that's cool, but like, do you really want to be surrounded by people who just want to be around you because you're smart and they know that I'll get a good grade if I'm around this person? Like no, obviously not. And that's why, like, at the end of the day, like I said, you can have the best grades or whatever, but like you need to just be. I think being a well-rounded person is just the most important thing you can do, especially in this field. Right, because people don't. You can be a specialist I'm not saying don't specialize in things but at the end of the day, people are just so much more than one number. You know, like you said, you can that arrogance is, can stand out. Like you don't even know the guy seriously, but like nobody really wants to be most at least most people I know probably don't want to be around somebody who is, you know, hard to work with, arrogant. And that's true in the professional world.

Speaker 1: 31:48

You can interview somewhere and have the best answers with the best efficiencies, but like if you're just a jerk about it. You know, people are interviewing for these things too. They're not just interviewing for like, oh, are you the smartest interviewer, the best interviewer we've ever seen? Like they look at your attitude, they look at your behavioral, your people skills. If those are dog water, then nobody's gonna want to work with you. So, you know, people forget all the time, and I think it's important to remember, especially, you know, in undergrad or in school in general. Like you know, we get caught up and you know it's easy to like beat ourselves up.

Speaker 1: 32:27

Like me too, I kind of fell in that pattern at some point. But then I kind of realized like I'm doing my best and I think alhamdulillah. Kind of realized like I'm doing my best and I think alhamdulillah. You know, if it, if it wasn't for the things that I did and the people I met, I don't think I'd even be here doing this, you know. So I'll just say alhamdulillah. You know I didn't have to make you know these things, but that was my journey, right, and that's what worked for me. I just think, yeah, when we're so used to being around high achieving people and hard achieving environments, it's very easy to like get stuck in that mindset of like, oh man, I have to be, I just have to have all the best. Like, no, and even in CS, like in real life, it's not about being perfect, it's just honestly, just about being good enough to make sure things don't break and then optimizing it and improving it from there. So, yeah, so that you've learned from your peers or your teachers.

Speaker 2: 33:31

That has stuck with you when I got my first semester result, I had like all A's and like I had one B and one. My GPA was like 2.8, something like, and I was really happy about it. But then when I started hearing the other classes like other class fellows result and I was like, ok, maybe I'm not that really smart as I think I am, maybe I'm not that really smart as I think I am, so like I was feeling really bad about myself, even though it wasn't something I should be feeling bad about myself. So I talked to some of my professors and I was like, do you think this is a bad GPA? And they were like no, my God, who has told you Like, who's brainwashed you? They were like you're just focused on your exam and stuff.

Speaker 2: 34:19

You're, you're someone, your code, the only thing that matters, your skills. Don't go towards all this rush in the gpa race. Just leave that rat race and just focus on your coding, just focus on your skill set, because at the end of the day, interviewers aren't going to ask, oh, oh, my God, okay, you're a 4.0, so we're going to keep you in the job. No, they're going to ask you like coding related stuff. They're going to ask you like what do you know, what can you work with, what do you know how to build? So yeah, that alone like that's sort of like motivation, that was something, so yeah.

Speaker 1: 35:00

That's that was so. Yeah, that's like a really powerful and, you know, goes along with kind of the point that we were talking about, which is just like, yeah, you want to focus on things that are going to bring you career because ultimately you're going to make a bunch of good grades. You're here to now. Does college necessarily do the best job of that? No, but that's why we kind of take that into our own hands, which which that's why you know people who even ask me like you know, what should I go to the school for? Or whatever To me.

Speaker 1: 35:25

Right, you shouldn't be asking yourself, what degree should I get? You should be asking like, okay, what do I want to do and how am I going to get there? You know, work your way backwards, because at the end of the day, maybe what you want to do doesn't even involve spending thousands of dollars in a degree. So then you're just cutting out all the mess, all the extra. But if we just look at it as like, oh, I have to do this, I have to take this path, you know, imagine I should have done better in this class. You know, imagine I should have done better in this class. But you know, sometimes these things happen, so it can show us that like, oh, maybe it's not the end of the world, like you know, awesome. So one more question. This is my typical closing question.

Speaker 2: 36:22

So what is your favorite, aya, and how does it inspire or influence your approach to your career, your school? I think it would be like رَبِّ يَسِّرْ وَلَا تُوَسِّرْ وَتَمِّنْ بِالْخَيْرِ. So the translation is my Lord, make this task easy and do not make it difficult, and make it end well. So it's this, ayah, and it's this dua that I recite before every quiz, every exam, like, and it seems to be college. So whenever I recite this particular dua, I like, my heart seems to come to rest, so I feel peaceful within.

Speaker 1: 36:53

I love that mashallah. That's actually really beautiful. Well, with that being said, I'd like to thank you so much for your time. So where can people find you and or support you?

Speaker 2: 37:12

I have my LinkedIn account as well, so my name is Azen, so I made it go like niyaza to make it like, make it look nerdy and like cool and stuff. So I just go backwards and that's my username I love that and everything.

Speaker 1: 37:30

Thank you so much for your time. This was honestly really enjoyable. I had such a blast, you know, talking about you, your journey and just everything, and I pray allah just continues to make your journey easy and I mean, you know, just makes it puts barakah and everything that you're doing and everything, because it's it's not easy but, alhamdulillah, it's worth it at the end, I promise yes, thank you. Thank you so much for your time. May Allah make everything easy for you.

Speaker 2: 38:00

I mean inshallah for you as well.

Speaker 1: 38:02

I mean thank you All right. As-salamu alaykum, I will follow up with you soon, inshallah.

Speaker 2: 38:08

Inshallah, thank you so much again. No problem, yeah.